Hello all,
New dad to the forum here. Will be gradually home tutoring DS to try for a grammar place. I'll probably be popping up here and there asking for help on the 11+ (mostly in my region) over the next 2 years, as well as trying to contribute my two cents where I can.
But before I dive in, I've been curious on a number of fronts, both personally for myself as well as others. Naturally, there is a lot of content on the how, which I am very grateful for. But I wonder how many question the why? Specifically, why grammar school? Given the unseemly young age at which we're exposing our kids to a brutally heartless competition, with an arguably pernicious fallacy of scarce rewards at its core, how is this process not vastly more of a reflection on us as parents? What is it that we want for our kids and perhaps more telling, what is it that we want for us?
I'm not sure if it's my bleeding liberal side which needs to rationalise, or if I just need a sounding board, but I feel I should share.
I'm originally from the States and went to the American equivalent of a grammar (albeit with an entrance exam 2 years later than here). I am a product of state-sponsored, selective education. (I'd be curious to know how many parents of grammar school kids also went to grammars themselves? Possible poll, moderators?) I won't deny I might have a little bit of a twisted fascination in comparing anthropological-cultural differences, should DS get in.
My parents emigrated to the US in the '70s. Like many of their kind, they came with professional qualifications (engineer and nurse) and worked for a while as such but ended up running small businesses for various reasons. I had a semi-tiger mum (- just a bit, not full-blown). I rebelled a lot as a child, but I am truly grateful my mum sent me to extra summer classes to help me get into the selective school I went to - as it genuinely changed my life. But I don't know if my follow on reality would match up with the general perception of selective schools?
So going back to the question of why? I can only relate from my own experience across the pond. I'm sure others could be different and I'd love to hear.
- Better teachers? I had a few life-changing ones for sure, but on the whole I don't know if they were miles better than you might find elsewhere. Could very well make the case that it is a lot easier teaching brighter kids anyway?
- Better future/financial opportunities? I can tell you right now, I'm not rolling in it. (Ok, I know that sounds like what a rich person might say, but seriously, I'm not rich, we still rent and indies are out of the question.) If financial prospects are truly the bigger motivator, I don't see how this could be connected - one could probably more easily get good at something which could be made into a business. In any case, kids who get into grammars more likely come from already well-to-do households or have able parents who can dedicate the time. The notion of these schools being an instrument for social mobility is something of an outdated fantasy for most and I don't see any point in pretending otherwise.
- Better future networks? This is debatable. And relative/subjective. I myself don't have any old school chums on FTSE boards as such, but that's always been fine by me. I have a work colleague who is a card carrying member of his local Conservative Party, which I found confusing at times as his views rarely leaned to the right. He later told me it was to be able to connect with people more likely to have money... ugh, basically for all the wrong reasons. But I won't be so naive as to deny the value of powerful connections. I can imagine this being more the case at independents, I'm just not sure how much grammars are the place for this as such?
- Better status? If your incentive to get DC into a grammar is so you can boast about it (in any which form, whether obnoxiously or veiled)... just... stop. I feel sorry for you. And I feel even more sorry for your DC. Think about how needy this makes you look? That you have to rely on some external badge conferred by society rather than appreciate, love and foster what makes your child unique? If grammar school is some sort of status symbol to you, I hope you can quickly graduate from that mindset, for the sake of your DC, if not for yourself.
So what is my why? Why am I willing to put DS (as well as myself and DW) through this ruthless gantlet? For me, reflecting back on my own time, it was being in an environment in which the joy of learning wasn't derided. Prior to getting into that high school, I grew up thinking that nerds could never be cool. All the popular kids weren't. That was the world I had known. And what easier way to disguise being smart than actually not being smart? Even after I got into that school, this mentality would continue to linger to my detriment for years. I've long thought of myself as a relative late-bloomer - but I can never say for sure how much this may have had to do with the setting around me. Granted, I am not a genius. I was in the bottom third of my class and it is very possible I would have still been in the bottom third of my class even if I applied myself earlier. But I am ever grateful I had the classmates and friends which I did. No one was ever made fun of for being studious. And whilst I would never be the smartest from that school, it did teach me early on to find my niche.
As much as I would like to think I am a fairly strong-willed adult today, I know I would be remiss to underestimate the powerful causality that environment can play - especially at such a young and impressionable age. On the other hand, it could very well be that my hang-ups have hampered my vision. Who is to say DS would go through exactly what I went through? It would be grossly unfair to project my past onto all comprehensives universally, not to mention over generalising all grammars.
More cynically, I could be accused of an egotistical drive to create more of a mini-me than DS already is. He has my strengths as well as my weaknesses - it is sometimes like watching myself grow up again. Or perhaps more charitably to myself, if inexcusably lazy - would I like him to try for a grammar because it is what I am familiar with?
As parents, we all want the best for our kids. But that is an incredibly loaded, if disingenuous statement which deserves to be dissected and evaluated to its bare bones. We all carry our own baggage and the limitations of what we think we know. With or in spite of that, here's to hoping we can do what is truly best for them, rather than us.
My apologies if this has turned into a lengthy monologue. Would love to hear from others. Particularly parents who went to grammars as well.
New dad to the forum here. Will be gradually home tutoring DS to try for a grammar place. I'll probably be popping up here and there asking for help on the 11+ (mostly in my region) over the next 2 years, as well as trying to contribute my two cents where I can.
But before I dive in, I've been curious on a number of fronts, both personally for myself as well as others. Naturally, there is a lot of content on the how, which I am very grateful for. But I wonder how many question the why? Specifically, why grammar school? Given the unseemly young age at which we're exposing our kids to a brutally heartless competition, with an arguably pernicious fallacy of scarce rewards at its core, how is this process not vastly more of a reflection on us as parents? What is it that we want for our kids and perhaps more telling, what is it that we want for us?
I'm not sure if it's my bleeding liberal side which needs to rationalise, or if I just need a sounding board, but I feel I should share.
I'm originally from the States and went to the American equivalent of a grammar (albeit with an entrance exam 2 years later than here). I am a product of state-sponsored, selective education. (I'd be curious to know how many parents of grammar school kids also went to grammars themselves? Possible poll, moderators?) I won't deny I might have a little bit of a twisted fascination in comparing anthropological-cultural differences, should DS get in.
My parents emigrated to the US in the '70s. Like many of their kind, they came with professional qualifications (engineer and nurse) and worked for a while as such but ended up running small businesses for various reasons. I had a semi-tiger mum (- just a bit, not full-blown). I rebelled a lot as a child, but I am truly grateful my mum sent me to extra summer classes to help me get into the selective school I went to - as it genuinely changed my life. But I don't know if my follow on reality would match up with the general perception of selective schools?
So going back to the question of why? I can only relate from my own experience across the pond. I'm sure others could be different and I'd love to hear.
- Better teachers? I had a few life-changing ones for sure, but on the whole I don't know if they were miles better than you might find elsewhere. Could very well make the case that it is a lot easier teaching brighter kids anyway?
- Better future/financial opportunities? I can tell you right now, I'm not rolling in it. (Ok, I know that sounds like what a rich person might say, but seriously, I'm not rich, we still rent and indies are out of the question.) If financial prospects are truly the bigger motivator, I don't see how this could be connected - one could probably more easily get good at something which could be made into a business. In any case, kids who get into grammars more likely come from already well-to-do households or have able parents who can dedicate the time. The notion of these schools being an instrument for social mobility is something of an outdated fantasy for most and I don't see any point in pretending otherwise.
- Better future networks? This is debatable. And relative/subjective. I myself don't have any old school chums on FTSE boards as such, but that's always been fine by me. I have a work colleague who is a card carrying member of his local Conservative Party, which I found confusing at times as his views rarely leaned to the right. He later told me it was to be able to connect with people more likely to have money... ugh, basically for all the wrong reasons. But I won't be so naive as to deny the value of powerful connections. I can imagine this being more the case at independents, I'm just not sure how much grammars are the place for this as such?
- Better status? If your incentive to get DC into a grammar is so you can boast about it (in any which form, whether obnoxiously or veiled)... just... stop. I feel sorry for you. And I feel even more sorry for your DC. Think about how needy this makes you look? That you have to rely on some external badge conferred by society rather than appreciate, love and foster what makes your child unique? If grammar school is some sort of status symbol to you, I hope you can quickly graduate from that mindset, for the sake of your DC, if not for yourself.
So what is my why? Why am I willing to put DS (as well as myself and DW) through this ruthless gantlet? For me, reflecting back on my own time, it was being in an environment in which the joy of learning wasn't derided. Prior to getting into that high school, I grew up thinking that nerds could never be cool. All the popular kids weren't. That was the world I had known. And what easier way to disguise being smart than actually not being smart? Even after I got into that school, this mentality would continue to linger to my detriment for years. I've long thought of myself as a relative late-bloomer - but I can never say for sure how much this may have had to do with the setting around me. Granted, I am not a genius. I was in the bottom third of my class and it is very possible I would have still been in the bottom third of my class even if I applied myself earlier. But I am ever grateful I had the classmates and friends which I did. No one was ever made fun of for being studious. And whilst I would never be the smartest from that school, it did teach me early on to find my niche.
As much as I would like to think I am a fairly strong-willed adult today, I know I would be remiss to underestimate the powerful causality that environment can play - especially at such a young and impressionable age. On the other hand, it could very well be that my hang-ups have hampered my vision. Who is to say DS would go through exactly what I went through? It would be grossly unfair to project my past onto all comprehensives universally, not to mention over generalising all grammars.
More cynically, I could be accused of an egotistical drive to create more of a mini-me than DS already is. He has my strengths as well as my weaknesses - it is sometimes like watching myself grow up again. Or perhaps more charitably to myself, if inexcusably lazy - would I like him to try for a grammar because it is what I am familiar with?
As parents, we all want the best for our kids. But that is an incredibly loaded, if disingenuous statement which deserves to be dissected and evaluated to its bare bones. We all carry our own baggage and the limitations of what we think we know. With or in spite of that, here's to hoping we can do what is truly best for them, rather than us.
My apologies if this has turned into a lengthy monologue. Would love to hear from others. Particularly parents who went to grammars as well.
Statistics: Posted by Queensdad — Sat Jul 20, 2024 11:45 am